Games modes - who needs em?
Let's talk a moment about the fundamental concept of APB, and how it is NOT like a multi-player Grand Theft Auto game (aka how it is NOT "GTA Online"), at least not yet.
When the team designed APB back in the day it appears one of the goals for the game was truly to create a Grand Theft Auto "Online" inspired game with two opposing sides duking it out for supremacy. No problem with that in theory. Except that a multi-player GTA clone that preserves any semblance of story progression (or Red Dead Redemption clone for that matter) is a really hard thing to pull off for one basic reason; people on the "opposing" side will never do anything that resembles "story-line-reenactment," and more fundamentally, the whole GTA concept, while open world-ish in nature, is still at its core a story-driven progression with a logical beginning and end. The great stories themselves is really what make the GTA games brilliant on their own (after all, how many old ladies can you run over before you want to put the rampage behind you and start experiencing some story progression?). As an aside, I am still a bit confused about the story-value of the Zombies in RDR's Zombie update after the brilliant first act of RDR - but that's a whole different discussion.
So to put it in perspective, imagine yourself being one of the NPC characters in one of the GTA games, ie - not playing a protagonist like Niko Bellic in GTA 4 or Claude Speed in GTA 2, but instead playing the guy who works with Governor Johnny Rotten, or working for Jerkov in the Russian Mob. If you in fact PLAYED that character, you would basically sit around and do nothing 99% of the time, while waiting for your "scene" to occur, at which point you would add your cool flavor to the game and then get shot. No sane gamer would actually want to act out that role (it would be like a really boring version of a Civil War reenactment). But that kind of single-player progression design is what makes those games brilliant from the protagonist's point of view (and duds for the NPCs). One of the complaints about APB was the fact that sometimes one side in a conflict were basically asked to act as story progression for the other side, and that didn't always seem to work out very well.
On the opposite side of story driven games are the hard-core Player vs. Player games that basically throw away the story. Counterstrike, Team Fortress 2, Unreal Tournament 2004 even our own War Rock and to some extent Knight Online. Is there a story in any of those games in their primary game modes (ie the mode that 99% of players use daily while whacking away at each other with guns or swords)? Neh. Not really. Sure there are some allusions to a world out there (what's the Tournament thing in UT anyway?, and why is the Spy in TF2 French? and what's the "War Rock" meteor that apparently crashed to earth from the heavens? - who cares?), so basically the storyline is almost completely irrelevant to the core game play and the core fun. But those are all still brilliant games, thanks to tight level design and the ability for players to have a completely new game experience with each respawn and by focusing on fast-action strategy, the game becomes more akin to chess on steroids (you know the board, but you don't know what your opponent will do), rather than a cinematic story progression.
That creates a dilemma for the current incarnation of APB. Because it tried combining what is really two separate types of games into one game mode (story plus PvP; where PVE style NPCs give you orders to do stuff that lead to PvP confrontations), the game originally felt like it hadn't quite made up it's mind yet on what type of gamer interaction it expected (either the ultra-detailed player-and-team-control demanded by PvP, or the progression driven feel of story-focused PvE?) .
APB actually has the beginnings of a lot of the elements that will make it a really successful game in the long term, and could in theory exploit (maybe "complete") both types of interactions; there is ACTUALLY a giant back-story to the entire city (100+ pages of it), there are deep anthologies of the various factions in the city, and there is even the foundation for a single-player mission mode, which would in essence turn one of the training missions into something more akin to GTA. And if we were to go further in that direction, then there is really nothing stopping us from going "Law and Order" on the whole thing (ie - episodic story-driven content meant to be experienced either by an individual in single-player mode, OR by groups of people in a more traditional PVE/collaborative mode where teams or clans go "raiding" together and battle AI opponents that do more things than just run away like the current inhabitants in the city).
On the other hand, there is no reason the PvP fighting shouldn't also be extended to it's logical conclusion, and we are considering starting a new mode where we hand back direct control to the player, a la Counterstrike. Potentially we would call that "Session Mode," "Clan Mode" or "Team Mode" or something similar. Of course this type of mode risks breaking the design-continuity between the Social Districts and Action Districts, but fundamentally, there is no good reason you should not be able to have more of a lobby-type function where your clan can take on a competing clan (even Crims on Crims), and have a show-down in a new (presumably smaller) map until one clan or team stands victorious. It would be like challenging someone to a duel at dawn, posse vs posse. And if you don't yet have a clan, what better method to find future clan mates than by permitting a more user-controlled joining process that enables short, fast paced game instances that can be completed in ten to twenty minutes.
There is even a third design philosophy; PvE collaborative mode using fast-paced (minimal-story) PvP mechanics. The closest here would be a Zombie style mode (hah - didn't I just question Zombies earlier?). The idea would be that you and some buddies should be able to show up at a building in the Social District, and upon entering you descend into a Resident Evil style nightmare clearing Zombies (and not a whole lot of story progression beyond shooting). This third mode is really just a PvE event with minimal story line, but would be something that provides more variety for the gamers, since it's a really great "introductory" collaborative mode mechanic (everyone is a winner, except the dead zombies who are all losers).
Our end goal is clear - we want people to become so engaged in the activities we will make available in San Paro that gamers want to "hang out" in some part of the city almost all the time. There should be a huge variety of interactions (PvP, PvE, collaborative, single-player, storylines, social interactions etc.) and players should really drive what modes we spend our time expanding and increasing in size (and what modes we abandon).
For the first release we will clearly not have had a chance yet to implement much, if any, of the above philosophies, however, this type of expanded game play is what we are planning out for the next 12 months.
Next week there will be no Blog Update (since it is Christmas week after all), but I will pen a short New Years update, and then we are planning to publicly release the first official launch schedule during the first week of January, as well as giving you more details of what will be in the various CB, OB and Live releases.
Cheers,
No no no. No-one wants to fight AI and no-one cares about single player story mode. Maybe include the more story when your doing missions for certain contacts but apart from that please don't change too much. The game was awesome how it was and if you mess it around too much you are in danger or really badly ruining it.
ReplyDeleteStatistics show ppl love PVP with Clans/ Big Groups. The second choice is PVE with normal sized groups but this is where you chose either side. APB is PVP its a no brainer to expand from that inless you seek to strip away innovation. PVP small groups/ PVP clan battles it is.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I like where this is going, I do agree that for the game to make more money it needs some kind of pve. BUT it should be kept in mind that the gear rewards should not perform better than PVP weapons in PVP situations or even make them useless in PVP.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that if you let player choose their opponent it opens the game to exploits random matchmaking was perfect for this situation.
Oh also I would like to mention that one of the best things about APB was being able to pick 3 other random people and stay competitive, not sure if you guys agree but this idea should be kept in APBR
A PvE driving game type would be good for those that enjoy it, WoW shows there are alot of people that do.
ReplyDeleteBut alot of people also like larger scale fights. When RTW went under they claimed to have what they called "Chaos Mode" working, which in essence was FFA. If you were to take that and add it to a few new districts, sub divide those districts into smaller city blocks and allow people to own those blocks you have the ability to appease alot of people.
Add in the ability to build weapons, manufacture drugs and sell stolen cars so clans can make money off they ground they hold, maybe even add in a supply and demand for selling drugs to NPCs and reserve weapons for players - making players drop weapons on death to balance it and people will fight over this territory creating alot of content without you actually having to script anything at all - the players will make it themselves.
You could even go as far as removing name tags and making the customization system even more important in recognising who your friends and enemies are.
I personally think a story mode would be a very good idea, whether it's a short tutorial or a fully blown mission line, giving a detailed view into San Paro would be great. But, one of the things that made APB stand out was its purely PVP styled gameplay and although I'm personally okay with PvE combat but you will hit some snags with the community there. A potential solution to this would be to change the missions to create somewhat of a PvP storyline. Instead of one PvP group doing a mission and the other doing a dispatch, they could both be doing missions that cancel each other out, of course this would take a lot of work to pull off. Well, whatever you do I'm sure you guys will make the right decisions you seem like a very capable company. Merry Christmas.
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ReplyDeleteKeep it a PVP game please!
ReplyDeleteI enjoied APB cause it was simple. simple and fast pvp action.
no need of any story or better quest line.
Mm that's alot to think about being so close to relaunch, however I quote nick with the idea of "chaos mode" sounds fun.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of there being a story but I and many others prefer fast action slaughter to pve.
I'm saying games like counter strike and TF2 get hundreds of thousands of players each night and gta single player gets very boring up to the point you find glitches and bugs purely because the game is way to long.
OMG. Please dont go the same route as Crimecraft, with its dead city, and people just using menu's to go to different small levels! I played this game because it is innovative, different and creative. If I want small map 6vs6 PvP or PvE guess what.. I can play like 30 other games that are like that.
ReplyDeleteLet me be the first to say thank god and thank gamersfirst. I'm happy to see the gears churning. All these ideas will be great if integrated right. As for the crimecraft statement, never played it, didnt even think about playing it when apb died. And i highly doubt Apb will go that direction. Its to great of a game. Again thank you guys for saving the only game i ever got that "feeling" playing. And beta invite would be sweet ;p
ReplyDeletelove some ideas maybe think about it this way the game is/was great on its own maybe as an extra a teamdead match/capture the flag mode would make the game more playable but dont make it like gunz or warrock the main focus is a world where you can drive around with alot of players
ReplyDeleteand (zombie) mode could be fun but who cares almost all games have zombie modes these days gets bored
and about the PvE dont do AI wont work and its to easy,
player vs player has a style no AI could defeat
and the story was a good one just not very bright.
>>numnut<<
I wuold love some PvE mission I thought that was the one thing that was missing from APB. This update has me confused tho. It sounds likeyour changing APB from a open world game to a Server style Deathmatch game? IMO The open world gameplay made APB fun. You could take mission or just drive around in your car for fun. There were no limits to what you could do and if you do go through with a change that big I think you will loss alot more of the hardcore APB players that subed to the orginal game.(I played ~100 beta ~400 live)
ReplyDeleteI like Nick's ideas.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest failing of the old game (which I played from launch) was that there was no real persistence to it. You got to keep the same car and clothes, but what you or your gang did changed nothing in the world.
Setting up an illegal enconomy, where the criminals are fighting for territory, resources and markets, while the cops try to shut it all down and create safe zones would make story happen without anything having to be scripted.
What if there were a way to tally win/loss results between two or more gangs and the cops. The overall winner for the week gets to expand their territory, or gets better deals from suppliers, or can raise their prices. The enforcers get bonuses, gifts from legit businesses, upgrades from the police, new clients.
Give me something to fight for other than bragging rights and unlocks and I will never stop playing. Winning should give you power and advantage in the game, but also paint a huge target on your back.
The other thing that I would love (and yes, I know this is wishful thinking) is conflict other than fighting. I want to be able to trick somebody, to bargain with somebody, to cheat somebody, to sell someone out to a rival, to lead the cops to my enemies, to practice diplomacy.
What if some groups of players controlled the importation of drugs? And what if, if other players wanted to sell those drugs, they had to make deals with those groups, or if they didn't want to deal, then try to take over their import business. Actual negotiation between real people, rather than scripted negotiation between players and NPCs.
Okay, I'm getting too ambitious, but they do it in EVE. Wouldn't EVE be much more fun with gangsters and muscle cars?
Hum, there are several GTA games, GTA 1 and GTA 2 were first published on PC and they were not really story driven (at least not like the last ones).
ReplyDeleteAnd in GTA 2, there was a multiplayer mode.
Yes, yes, yes. I want to fight AI, I care about the story. So do millions of other MMO'ers. An exclusively PvP MMO is unprecedented. Maybe because it doesn't work?
ReplyDeleteI believe PvP can bring some of the most challenging, unpredictable and interesting gameplay possible, but it also brings a lot more complex problems when you base your whole ecosystem around PvP. While unpredictability is a desirable element for the game experience, it's certainly not desirable for development. And it might not be desirable ALL THE TIME for the game experience, either.
So, without further ado, here are my 5 reasons why PvE would work in APB.
1. PvE and PvP balance eachother.
PvE often holds no surprises, often is relatively easy to overcome, high degree of predictability. It's easier to build content for, and that content is easier to balance. The result is that PvE offloads a lot of the frustration people might have with the PvP counterpart, and vice versa. Too challenging? PvE some until you're stronger. Too easy and the rewards suck? Kill some players for better rewards!
2. More stable economy.
PvE will help balance and level auction house prices as long as there is a demand for things dropped in PvE environments.
3. Control over your experience.
When tackling a PvE situation with your friends you will pretty much always "win" as long as everyone does their job.
4. Guaranteed progression.
Sometimes you lose 5 games in a row and feel like PvP is going nowhere. Falling back on PvE so you can still progress in the game world would be natural if it was an option. The alternative is playing something else.
5. Flavor.
Flavor is obvious. PvE allows storylines, voice acting, cinematics. It's an alternative play mode. Some players just don't enjoy PvP. Other players need a break from PvP sometimes.
I'm a major advocate for major change in APB:Reloaded. Such a fundamental change to the basic gameplay model would bring back a lot of the hype that existed back before the original APB launched. That hype was born because the core concept of GTA ONLINE with detailed customization in a persistant online world was (and still is) extremely attractive. APB just fucked it up by making it too counterstrike, and not GTA enough.
Yes, yes, yes. I want to fight AI, I care about the story. So do millions of other MMO'ers. An exclusively PvP MMO is unprecedented. Maybe because it doesn't work?
ReplyDeleteI believe PvP can bring some of the most challenging, unpredictable and interesting gameplay possible, but it also brings a lot more complex problems when you base your whole ecosystem around PvP. While unpredictability is a desirable element for the game experience, it's certainly not desirable for development. And it might not be desirable ALL THE TIME for the game experience, either.
So, without further ado, here are my 5 reasons why PvE would work in APB.
1. PvE and PvP balance eachother.
PvE often holds no surprises, often is relatively easy to overcome, high degree of predictability. It's easier to build content for, and that content is easier to balance. The result is that PvE offloads a lot of the frustration people might have with the PvP counterpart, and vice versa. Too challenging? PvE some until you're stronger. Too easy and the rewards suck? Kill some players for better rewards!
2. More stable economy.
PvE will help balance and level auction house prices as long as there is a demand for things dropped in PvE environments.
3. Control over your experience.
When tackling a PvE situation with your friends you will pretty much always "win" as long as everyone does their job.
4. Guaranteed progression.
Sometimes you lose 5 games in a row and feel like PvP is going nowhere. Falling back on PvE so you can still progress in the game world would be natural if it was an option. The alternative is playing something else.
5. Flavor.
Flavor is obvious. PvE allows storylines, voice acting, cinematics. It's an alternative play mode. Some players just don't enjoy PvP. Other players need a break from PvP sometimes.
I'm a major advocate for major change in APB:Reloaded. Such a fundamental change to the basic gameplay model would bring back a lot of the hype that existed back before the original APB launched. That hype was born because the core concept of GTA ONLINE with detailed customization in a persistant online world was (and still is) extremely attractive. APB just fucked it up by making it too counterstrike, and not GTA enough.
DON'T USE FPS CAMERA!
ReplyDeleteUSE GTA CAMERA AND GTA STYLE MATCH!
Please, please do not go this route! APB's greatness is in its direct PvP confrontation through open world, pve objectives. Adding lobby matches and separate PvE modes would diminish the importance of that open world PvP mechanic, and thus diminish the game's fun factor--the true selling point of APB.
ReplyDeleteThere are other ways to flesh out APB's story that fit with the core of the game. Expand on the mission and contact flavor text, for example. Add mission types with more interactive PvE elements. Add a factional/clan war system. Any number of different things to enhance the open world, almost sandbox-y PvP that exists in APB as it is.
Just please, do not diminish the open world PvP factor.
I love the debate!
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to step in and clarify something, we are not proposing removing any of the current activities from APB (ie it will continue to feature open-city PvP with weighted "random-ish" match-making).
But we have all these new directions we can act on (and quite a bit of material we can incorporate), so the question becomes; in order to make the game feel more complete do we focus on adding story/PVE to the game, or, do we out-Counterstrike Counterstrike by pushing forward with more team-play hardcore short-session PvP (presumably this would add direct match selection by players), or do we do a little of both?
Neither change would remove the current open-city modes since the goal is simply to expand the game (so if you like the current modes, no problem, they will still be there).
Let the debate continue :)
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ReplyDeleteHi Bjorn. Ydiss here, from the forums and from APBChat. Thanks for the update.
ReplyDeleteI do like the idea of having the options for clans to face off against other clans, or just groups v groups, in smaller settings. So long as there is no monetary or factional reward for this activity, it'll mean players will still want to go and "work" in the city as normal.
It should be said though, APB does not need a stronger PVE-only element to it. In fact, I personally believe that there should be no PVE that cannot evolve into PVP (stealing cars and delivering them for cash is a PVE activity which used to be turned into a PVP activity if the criminal was witnessed - that needs to be brought back).
The big thing about APB is the living city feel you get when you cruise about San Paro - it was a buzz to see the battles happening all around you, both when fighting yourself and when just chilling out and showing off your colours. You must not divert from that feeling.
So adding story should be done entirely by the PVP modelling - give us more interesting missions, design some rare mission types which involve more PVE interaction (classic prison break or bank job scenarios) but which have a strong chance of evolving into PVP encounters.
As you say in your blog, the protagonist is all of us and we're also all the extras in the story. You need to aim for that, not deliver us yet another PVE grind-fest like WOW or another story-mode game which takes players out of the battle and into instances.
Everything APB should be about is to make PVP happen naturally - there is no reason why we cannot do that in mini stories, even if they do play out again and again.
I promise you, if you nail the mission design and balance, get match making to produce lively and realistic encounters, you will realise APB's potential much faster than if you attempt to reach out to a brand new demographic with PVE content.
To follow up my post above, I've made a post about this on the official forum. Here it is for some more of my thoughts on this:
ReplyDeleteYdiss' Blog Comments
Nice its getting warmer. One more thing, I really want the hood or property control, "gang wars". Cant get the proper name, but I remember alot of people suggested it and I think the RTW thought about bringing it too.
ReplyDeleteId like to thank you for The Week 5 Update, and hope all gamersfirst have a good holiday. My feelings on APB Reloaded is that Action Districts should be larger then 100 players. More then 4 players on a "team". More vehicle types, as in motocycles, bigger vehicle that carry more then 4 people. I think more weapons also would lead to more different gameplay styles. As most people in APB used same gun like JG, Ntec, OCA.
ReplyDeleteI think yes APB tryed to have a "story driven" feel that was hole thing to single player GTA. But in APB you didnt need to know nothing about the story to progress. I feel that APB Reloaded should try to make it seem more like Enforcers Vs Criminals. Like make "missions" have more of an effect on the district your in. Zombies and alot you mention isnt new and were all over APB forums before it disappeared. I think yes that is great for the people who want that type of play.
My main problem with APB was that Missions felt the same, you only had 2 Maps for PvP. What you did in APB didnt effect anything in the world. NPCs didnt even pull over when you used sirens and lights *Why even add siren and lights then*. There is alot of Little things I could list forever about APB and I think they should be your main focus before you launch APB. Please if you need close beta tester that will give feedback and not BS contact me error@sin-clan.net or error311@gmail.com
My clan for apb website is http://Reaper.SanParo.org/
Bjorn / TechMech: I realize that you guys dont want to change whats there but the sole fact that adding all this stuff will segregate the community and eventually will force people to do stuff they dont want to do cause the other gamemodes dont have any players.
ReplyDeleteAlso you really are thinking of making another wow? whats next healers and elfs? sigh dam non pvp newbs need their hand held i guess
Game should stay as cause as before, people want to ad this waste-time activities like crafting and epeen fights but thats not meaningful gameplay
Please Make it like old APB .
ReplyDeleteIF you guys just tweaked the matchmaking and gotten rid of cheaters/farmers then newbies would have a better time playing.
ReplyDeletePVE is so dull and stupid... I got away from other games cause the pve grinds are so stupid. I see it the same as trying to get the stupid wheelman15 role.. a MINDLESS and boring grind
I really liked Nathan's idea :)
ReplyDeleteAnd well, biggest appeal to everyone in apb was the short-session PvP but people don't like to get owned over and over (mix matchmaking?) turning the game into PVE/PVP is gonna be painful to the people who love and already enjoy the game
ReplyDeleteTo be completely honest before you start adding new modes and what not, why don't you work on fixing the vast amounts of exploits and bugs within the game. I'm not shooting down the whole idea of adding things but work with what you have before you go making unnecessary additions that people may not even like. On another note fighting AI is boring and no one wants to do that. The open city is the only thing that made this game unique as an online instance based, there was no lobby so it was more realistic than waiting in a channel for players. But that's just one guys opinion.
ReplyDeleteI agree with danny.
ReplyDeleteIf you're not in a group pvping on duty etc, you're pveing in the city - Drug dealing, clamping stolen cars perhaps, arresting known npc crims, robbing banks. There just needs to be more of it and a better knowledge of what is possible to do around the city, or a way to progress/escalate the pve content.
And this will all lead to PvP (if there is opposition around)
On the counter argument, if I'm online when little to no one about on the servers, I'll get bored with no opposition. I'll go around happily dealing drugs to the entire city... what then... There must be some objective to all this pve otherwise it's pointless. Money yes, but something more is needed. Such as claiming an area, dealing/making drugs that brings in cash for your whole clan. Enforcers controlling an area enough that NPCs start policing the area making it trickier for crims to deal there without hassle etc.
What about the things you do in one city sector affecting another? Manage to sell some drugs you made to an npc dealer in Waterfront? Some npcs show up in a corresponding financial district with a task of dealing to the populace. (this one needs more ideas)
One thing that you really should keep is this open world, sandbox feel to the game. Yes, you could add in mini games to the social district (shooting range, car test drive track, cinema to view other players 20sec clips etc) but everything else would need to feel like you’re in a live world. (Not a separated place where only you and you’re friends can hug each other)
These are just some thoughts, ponderings. I hope they sound good and will help, and if anyone wishes to expand further, feel free.
Also what exactly are you guys thinking in regard with PVE on f2p accounts? PVE will bring in more premium accounts? what about weapons? cars? levels? all the little stuff that needs to be retrofitted for PVE?
ReplyDeleteWhy are you guys not focusing on fixing the bad and foster the good instead of making changes that could be a waste of resources that could be focused to make the game better?
This "update" was just upsetting...
ReplyDeleteagreed DiscreetControl, nothing worse than seeing your game get watered down to please the less skilled playerbase. to many games do this
ReplyDeletei like it, expansion is what this game needs, and about the zombies, you could do like a zombie district event? where you and a clan or something battle to retake the city from zombies as kinda a mini game or variety in modes.
ReplyDelete@ Bjorn
ReplyDeleteHow about focusing on enhancing aspects that make the game unique instead of ripping off Counter Strike or GTA?
You have new directions, yes, but is it worth risking the loss of what makes this game great? Keep in mind that the time spent on adding stuff like zombie modes and PVE (which aren't exactly what people came to this game for) could be spent on improving the PvP stuff (small instanced maps is NOT an improvement).
please post your comment on this update as another update/addition to week 5 since the information is extremely critical...
ReplyDeleteI did not really enjoy making an account to put this up, took me a couple of tries...
ReplyDeleteOkay I did not read the post completely but did saw comments and you saying that APB won't change. A Single player... well if you want to balance it a bit but I don't think it's that needed. A tutorial, well an introduction is never excessive.
About the make some sort of deathmatch... I play APB because I'm running away of the same old thing over and over again. Small maps, gang each others? Please no... The game style is completely different to mix them up.
I just saw Crimecraft recently because a user mention it and I did not like it one small bit with what I got to see of it. I mean zero.
APB is unique, is the only game I get the feel of always wanting to play from time to time either to just mess around, get serious at time or just simply do random things with others or also just social network community in the game when your not just feeling to get down to the actual play.
It got me down in a way that APB close, I dislike those third program moder because it simple ruin the fun in any game and just any other game. I'm glad to hear something about them is being done.
I know there beast player yes, but come on you can tell...
1. Your not half a second in the expose area and your dead.
2. They know where you at(Criminal type) I know Cops get location of prime target and all but here's an example...
You go to an area and criminal is protection his paint or something. You see him from a cover area(a position he can't tell from where he at) and okay he's looking there, go to another entrance to try take him by surprise and he's already aiming at that spot... Okay fine let go back to the preview spot and you see the guy tilting to the side to try peek on you and even pre-fire before you even let know your there. I mean you can tell they have something, you expose for a fraction second and boom he hit you in that blink of an eye.
I quit APB because there's no way I was going to pay subscription just to get a tracking beacon on my butt to get it aimbutt. Hell no...
But I do miss the old game when it pre-release and first days when no one had develop a thing like that yet. It was an ideal game and greatly enjoyable until it last but I do really miss it like some others that they been looking for news of this game ever since it close and track it down.
I apologize for all this typing, I know is not bad but it's just not my first language either and I know I make lot of none sense sentences or off place when try say a lot but I still try my best.
So far I don't know what I have say so far... but mainly is about keep the game as it is, it could use some few addons and all of course. Just... don't go too far ahead in making some I don't know, Call of duty game or so out of this. Beside a hit is a hit no matter where in APB, if you go do that you need to point out, arm hit, chest and headshot locations, and it's really going out of main purpose of the game design.
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ReplyDeleteOkay Bjorn, so your saying that if we didn't want to play the other stuff we could almost play APB exactly like it used to be?
ReplyDeleteIf so, i really like the extra add ons i just dont want them to effect the game i've grown to love.
ALSO i dont want to have to wait longer for the games release just to get more stuff. I want to play it soooon!
ummm what made APB great was the PVP core gameplay and the sandboxish nature of that pvp...dont change that for the love of god
ReplyDeleteNo Loot, No PvE grinding please!
ReplyDeleteIf people want the above they can join the 11 million who play WoW. I’ve played WoW for years and I think the key for this games success is to stay as different as WoW as possible. APB was my favorite game, so much more fun and EXCITING then the grind your-ass-off WoW. But in terms of mmo's, APB is often said as, "it's a great mmo if you don't want to spend your countless hours playing WoW." WoW forces long grinding and repetitiveness on the players. APB is a game that is different and needs to stay away from grinding and instead have a smooth progression without forcing it on a player.
The game needs to focus on the core (third-person, fun, exciting, team-based shooting.) Why? Because at it's core it one of a kind. Why expand to a game similar like WoW, there is no way a third-person shooter can even be anywhere close to successful with pve like WoW, LOTR Online, etc. I've played Crimecraft which is probably the closest game to APB, and the pve was just retarded easy and boring. With all that said, please focus on the core of the game, although a zombie mod would be an awesome mode to play once and a while with your friends. But thats the only pve I can see working. Expand on the PvP, this game isn't made to be PvE!
One final thing: more action districts!!!!
*played APB since beta-end nonstop -- WoW for past 4 years on and off*
Although it seems unavoidable that APB should expand to other game modes (since there were so many people complaining about missions being nonsensical, dreary, and repetitive), I really liked how the game originally worked to put players into environments, with goals to accomplish, and then have a group of other players pop in and interfere.
ReplyDeletePvE may appeal more to gamers who just want to log in for a bit, feel like a winner, and log out again, but for me I liked the challenge that came with APB's mission style. PvE does of course attract a wider audience to the game, and it wouldn't deter me from playing, but it seems to me that just so long as new mission types are added and weapons become more balanced, the game would become attractive to an even larger player base anyways.
And of course if the game got a bit too mixed up in putting PvE here, PvP there, and all that the game would start to feel very arcadeish and too distracted in focus to become that really iconic type of game where you know what atmosphere, audience, and story the game is trying to achieve. Even games like TF2 (which doesn't have much of a story beyond random tidbits of hilarious background information) feel very solid and appealing because they have continued (for the most part) to make their current players happy with the gameplay they love, rather than trying to expand their appeal to new audiences by introducing features that the old player base is not interested in.
APB's old community was throwing out alot of insults about the game's mission structure along with that whole snowball effect of general hostility towards the game, but I don't believe the game's actual missions and story setup had a problem. Those things were a large part of what made APB fun.
Overall, I don't want APB to be fixed where it doesn't need fixing. D:
First off, I want to thank you guys for saving a game I really loved. I've played many mmo's over the years, and I found APB to be one of my favorites. I really love it.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the article, I think some of the ideas you have for expanding the game sound intriguing. But what made APB so great for me was I could jump in, meet up with some buddies and have some really great open world pvp. I didn't care at all about story, atleast in APB. When you have a lot of story, then people will be at different stages in quest chains and it ends up breaking up the action. APB you just jump in and play.
As far as Counterstrike style matches, I think it might be okay if implemented correctly or for tournaments or something. But APB's strength was open world action and there were other people in the game world.
I also thought about the zombie idea. It could be enforcers and crims working together to complete objectives. Might be fun change of pace and some pve content. Alternatively, all solo players could be zombie and grouped players survivors. There's a lot of ways you could go implementing a zombie game.
They also talked about skill based server before, which sounded interesting.
Adding collections might also be something to look at. Completing a set might unlock clothing, cars, maybe furniture for instanced housing.
I have so many ideas, but longer i write maybe less chance people will read. Take care and good luck. Looking forward to APB Reloaded!
I think we are losing sight here guys this game is being resurrected to make the new company a profit. To maximise profit you need to maximise the player base. I think there is room for both PvE and PvP, I am sure you PvPers will probably flame me for this but although the more animated and vocal of users you are a minority in the grand scheme of things.
ReplyDeleteIf this company wants to make lots of cash they need to cover as many different player types as possible. PvE and PvP should be alongside each other - everyone is happy; a vast range of player demographic is covered and they maximise their profit margins.
Don't like this changes to.
ReplyDeleteThis game has lots of potential without PvE!!! and without any new modes (except CHAOS mode in the future!!).
we all love old apb and we all waiting its soon release. Just bring it back as soon as u guys can! and in the future fix some bugs.
In all this game is perfect, no need to change.
P.S. (we don't need game like counterstrike we need our old All Points Bulletin!!!!)
I cannot wait to see the release schedule. I hope people who had active accounts will be able to partake in the CB/OB phases without having to fill out an application and be approved.
ReplyDeleteI know I just want to play APB again. I have yet to find anything else like it.
If you're not in a group pvping on duty etc, you're pveing in the city (mugging, impounding stolen cars) what about - Drug dealing, clamping stolen cars perhaps, arresting known npc crims, robbing banks. There just needs to be more of it and a better knowledge of what is possible to do around the city, or a way to progress/escalate the pve content.
ReplyDeleteAnd this will all lead to PvP (if there is opposition around)
On the counter argument, if I'm online when little to no one about on the servers, I'll get bored with no opposition. I'll go around happily dealing drugs to the entire city... what then... There must be some objective to all this pve otherwise it's pointless. Money yes, but something more is needed. Such as claiming an area, dealing/making drugs that brings in cash for your whole clan. Enforcers controlling an area enough that NPCs start policing the area making it trickier for crims to deal there without hassle etc.
What about the things you do in one city sector affecting another? Manage to sell some drugs you made to an npc dealer in Waterfront? Some npcs show up in a corresponding financial district with a task of dealing to the populace. (this one needs more ideas)
One thing that you really should keep is this open world, sandbox feel to the game. Yes, you could add in mini games to the social district (shooting range, car test drive track, cinema to view other players 20sec clips etc) but everything else would need to feel like you’re in a live world. (Not a separated place where only you and you’re friends can hug each other)
These are just some thoughts, ponderings. I hope they sound good and will help, and if anyone wishes to expand further, feel free.
I'm really into zombie games and movies, but start with fixing the bugs and add chaos mode. Then you could add a pve zombieslaughter mode.
ReplyDeleteThe zombieslaughter mode:
It could be the normal districts, but with zombies all over the place.
The missions;
1. Go kill X zombies and get your reward.
2. Locate the person and get the hell out of there before anyone gets hurt.
3. Locate the documents (Some company with money wants some important documents left behind)
4. Another version of point 1. But this could be a clan match where the clan with most zombie kills within x minutes wins. You could be able to kill members from the other clan so they wont be able to get any zombie kills for a couple of seconds.
PS.
I love the stearing as it is or was when APB went down.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletenice write up but do not take to much into NPC stuff, if u do it will just become GTA online, right now with it been 99.9% its unique and thats whats great about it, if you start adding more and more single player stuff it will turn it into GTA.
ReplyDeleteim all for NPC content but involve PVP also... something like the mission for your group of 5 (or more if u increase the team cap) Enforcers is to escort the Major into an area and building, 5 Criminals are tasked with stopping the car train or kill her at the building etc.
this way there is a bit of NPC in there but its still almost all PVP content :)
i dare anyone on the APBReloaded team to get a legal copy of GTA San Andreas and the multiplayer mod at sa-mp.com and connect to this server samp.ng-gaming.net:7777
ReplyDeleteit is a true dynamic story driven adventure , all thrilled by its community
This update was just one giant turn in the wrong direction...
ReplyDeleteI mean, Counter Strike style mode and instanced battlegrounds?
APB is all ABOUT San Paro! A huge part of it's story was just the players you met on a day to day basis.
Adding a clan vs clan or deathmatch mode would be a bad move, because it would draw players away from the city. Much like Crimecraft, there would be no vibrant city after a while. Like Danny said, it would be a nice mode for two clans to face each other every now and then, but remove rewards from this mode. It would be a nice distraction, but once again, APB is about OPEN WORLD PVP.
I love the kiddoes that are screaming "NO PVE RUINED FOREVER ZOMG!!!" Sounds to me like you guys are on ego trips and that you think your way should be the only way. Bottom line: they'll do whatever they damn well please and you have little say in it.
ReplyDeleteI think that PvE content is a win-win. GamersFirst wins by attracting more customers. The players by having more to do.
Has anybody here played Global Agenda? They had both PvE and PvP content. Granted, the PvE was a tad lacking for some time. It consisted mostly of running through a small set of maps, killing trash mobs until you got to a boss. Kill the boss, get some loot, and maybe a bonus if your team did well. Despite this, PvP DID NOT take a hit. In fact, one had the option of never touching one mode or the other if they so chose, and they would really be no worse off than if they played both. Of course, there was some overlap. You had to run some PvE instances to get materials for crafting stuff for AvA if you were in an alliance, but it was still rather minimal, and that's all end-game content.
My point here is that if you're one of the hard-headed types that thinks PvE is lame or for wusses or what-the-hell ever, Don't frickin' play it! It's really not rocket science, kids! Even animals know that if they don't like a certain flavor of food, they don't eat it. Same goes for this. If you don't like PvE content, don't play it. Stop whining about stuff you won't touch and enjoy what you do play.
3 things,
ReplyDelete1. A single player offline mode would be great for obvious reasons.
2. NO ZOMBIES!
3. I still have APB installs on my computer, will I be able to play it??
All in all, I can't wait to play this game again.
Where all this zombies coming from? D:<!
ReplyDeleteApirl fool - Chaos mode
Now I would wet for something like that~
Excellent update, I can't wait to see more!
ReplyDeleteOk, i loved all the Week updates until this one. That sounded like A lot of change... and not for the better. I would be happy if the game was released - as was (maybe some balance issues resolved) right now. OPEN WORLD PVP was what made APB... well .. APB. Its about getting in your van with your friends and speeding around doing crimes and getting chased by the cops while you shoot out the window. Clan PVP - maybe, just because it will give the big clans with no life something to do. But zombies? GTFO... and offline single player = BORING. Not very many people would waste their time on that. Dont hold the game back by implementing more garbage that might seem to "add more" to the game. The game was fine - RTW just messed up financially, so in theory it should be out again pretty soon in most peoples eyes. All i would like to see is: The game re-released. Balance issues worked out with guns and factions. Maybe some new content (new guns, new clothing but not it its going to take longer for the game to come out) Then once its out, update new areas of San Paro. Do this over and over and the game will live on. Change it 2 much and im done with it, and i played it since Beta. One of the first in, one of the last out.
ReplyDeleteDont crap this game up with AI missions, clan battles, and zombies.. i mean all you would have there is global agenda : zombie edition with some gangster clothes on... seriously just get the game out as was - OPEN WORLD PVP (and i know you said that will still be there even with the other stuff added, but it comes off gimmicky and not necessary for this game)
*facepalm*
ReplyDeleteDon't add too many new game modes. If you add a ton of PvE, single player, etc., then the player base will be divided into smaller amounts of people who are using the different game modes, giving way less action to the core game.
Something to ponder, though:
The clan match idea thing would be great, but god damn don't make a lobby based game with separate maps. This would work way better, and would keep the game true to it's origins (people gun fighting on the side of the road while you focus on your own problems, etc)
Make it so a clan can 'propose' a match. The clan proposing can decide on what section of the city for the battle to take place, weapon/vehicle restrictions, amount of players per clan (if any limit)... things like that.
Then they can invite multiple other clans to the battle, possibly just one but maybe 2 or 3 others for a heated 4 way clan battle.
When clans agree to the terms, a time is decided. Example: Park district, clan x vs clan y, 6pm EST on December 1st. Then, everyone who is supposed to be in the fight is reminded with a small notification every 12 or 24 hours leading up to the day of the fight. Then they get alerts on when they have an hour, half hour, 15, 10, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... etc until the match starts. When the 'start' timer counts down to zero, the match begins, with or without them. So essentially everyone participating should make sure to be in the right place when the match begins, or risk losing.
The 'area' decided for the match would be a section, if not the entire city. The section decided will be outlined with an opaque boundary, only visible to those participating. If one leaves the area of battle, they have 5 or 10 seconds to return to the fight before they are killed or removed from the battle.
Still, it is an active part of the city. Others will still drive through, doing their missions, shooting it out, maybe a separate clan war going on in the same zone.
Just an idea, but I think it would make clan matches possible, and awesome, without taking away from the living city feel the game thrives on.
I felt the game was very similar to something like Battlefield Bad Company 2. Youre in a team vs team match with an objective. Even though theres people around you, they cant participate, and it makes the whole point of the open world really pointless and frustrating. The Chaos district that RTW was always talking about would have been awesome.
ReplyDeleteIn which case, if you did have a chaos district, you should also have faction specific safe zones, simlar to the safe zones in Bad Company 2. Mostly to prevent griefing, and to allow players to collect their bearings.
You guys are blind. This is the ABSOLUTE BEST THING that G1st can do. I keep telling you guys... SIMS WITH HAND GRENADES. That's the appeal of APB. Recognizing the huge amount of creative power the G1st crew now has with this setup you'll start to see why this could actually BE the WoW killer. And I say that entirely unsarcastically. This game can appeal to virtually everyone and reach virtually everyone.
ReplyDeleteaoc has guildvguild matches like that Rapid99 and its pretty much a fail idea :( looks good on paper but never works out.
ReplyDeletegame should not make you schedule for it :/
I didn't mean schedule in that sense. I meant a time could be set up in the future... or instantly, whatever works, and if it was in the future it would count down as a reminder. I just used the scheduling ahead of time as an example because sometimes an entire clan can't be on during the day or at certain hours because of work/class, so sorting out a time/day ahead of time when both clans have the most available players is helpful.
ReplyDeleteOr, again, you can do instant clan matches. The schedule thing was just an extra idea, my main point was the 'zones' within the city and the kill boundaries for official clan matches.
I agree with Kay.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo the people saying "DONT CHANGE ANYTHING THE GAME WAS PERFECT" - I realize you enjoyed APB when it was out and that you just want it back. But if they just rereleased it, it would just die again.
ReplyDeleteThe original game was fundamentally broken and every reviewer on the internet said so loudly. You might not agree, but the sales numbers did. It wasn't successful then, and it won't be now either without SIGNIFICANT change and improvements. Don't you want APB to stay up a little longer than a few months this time? I enjoyed APB too, but I wasn't so blinded by my love for the concept that I couldn't see the half-assed execution.
APB should have, could have been the ultimate cops and robbers MMO. Instead, it was a fragmented, glitchy team-deathmatch shooter with cars. Both sides played pretty much the same with the exception of sirens and the LTL.
Another thing I'd like you guys to try and understand: Trying to appeal only to the original APB fans is not a very good business strategy for G1. They need to reach out to new players. The original game had far too few players to survive, and for an F2P game the amount of players needs to be even higher to be viable. Only 10% or so of the players will be paying for the experience! More players is good for everyone, though, not just G1. It means more content, better matchmaking, better prices on the AH, better designs... This is not something you should be opposed to, even as a hardcore APB fan.
+1 against single player mode....
ReplyDeleteI don't really care about it, but if you create it, it will come with 2 bad points....
1°) Some success must be done on this single player mode
2°) You'll waste your time for it, and then you'll get not much time for the MAIN PvP mode !!
Seriously, I care with quite everypost you made before, but now... It just seems too much....
Zombie etc... If we wanna fuck zombies we can play Left 4 Dead ^^
We are just all in wait of your first released of the APB we already know, the rest is useless for most of us
And btw, your first customers will be the old RTW's APB players, all we want is the old APB, it's cool to try to make it "better" but you'll don't do that with some single player modes ^^
I am not saying do not add PvE content. PvE content could be very good for the game.
ReplyDeleteI am saying that the open-world nature of APB must not be compromised with instances and counter-strike style lobby matches.
APB's strength was in its open world design. Please do not do anything to change that.
Why not discuss things on the forum ?
ReplyDeleteWowowow hold your horses there. PvE? Team deathmatch? Are you sure you understand what game you took over? This is not Counter-strike or CS:S. I don't want small maps with 30minute clan wars. I still want that instanced large city where you drive around shooting at random players. That open feeling is what is part of the appeal. You turn this into Combat Arms with vehicles and I will never forgive you... Don't start disappointing me now. Delete this blog entry and stay true to the essence of APB...
ReplyDeleteAnd APB and story? Did you play the game pal? It might have had story in the design documents but there really wasn't any story going on while playing the game. The missions were silly things like grab a car or even grab a cat or snake in a cage and bring it to safety...
You can have clan wars, let them wage it out in existing districts, let them challenge eachother and get put into a district so that other players can see them wage war, it'll be a joy to see.
And don't forget FFA PvP districts :D
No PvE. No small map, small team vs team (unless as a side game) You need to funnel the majority of the players in a large city district where they duke it out...
Sorry if I sound like a dick but this blog really starts me worrying...
You should be focusing on how you could make APB's original concept work BETTER.
ReplyDeleteOne thing fans and critics have been asking for, are street racing missions, player housing and turf wars.
I would love that, and if you really want to make money off of this game, charging for player housing would be a stellar idea!
very very nice
ReplyDeleteGood to have both pvp and pve in the game
Keep up the good work and dont listen to the 12 years old kids, the wont last long in the game anyway.
Still waiting to see what you're doing about old accounts, and hopefully not pre pricing creations. No signs yet (this is a quick post as I couldn't finish this one cause I have work to get to, the job I also forgot to go to one day cause I was playing APB)
ReplyDeletePvE is an important component nowadays, as people also want to relax and don't always want to fight against good human opponents, but it shouldn't be first priority.
ReplyDeleteThe instanced fighting arenas are also a good idea. An idea which i toyed around by myself when they game was still up. It's a great way to quickly join a match without the open world component and if you know your sorroundings perfectly, you can repeat and perfect this area.
But in the end the strength of APB is the fight in a full 80-100 player district, driving through the city and getting missions on the fly in different areas. You should expend on that i think.
A Zombie gamemode is very popular at the moment, but for APB i would classify something like this as "low priority" Just because Call of Duty has a Zombiemode, doesn't mean it works in APB.
Also you said "social component", well at least do us the favor and beef up the social district with some goodies, useable bar, barkeeper, Special
I can think it's a difficult decision, where to start improving the game, i guess you need to look what people like and test some stuff in the beta time.
Good luck!
please just stop before you get ahead of yourselves....dont change the game that much. PVE, is ok iguess, i will never play it but, u need to never talk about lobbies , or making maps small to baqttle in. the huge part of why this game rules, is that u can go any were in the city. within the city there are areas that most people learn and migrate to during batlles that are like there own small maps. u are starting to scare me, and get far off the core of this game wen u have mentioned the things u have in this blog. zombies would b fun if this was a l4d2 expansion, but this is apb!!
ReplyDeleteAs a follow up to my post. I can only see one place for PvE. If you make rating districts, like -100 rating players only, 100-200, and 200+ (to not have new players get owned by fully pimped players) you can add PvE in case there aren't enough new players. You can add PvE content at these lower levels ONLY so that they can level up and get used to the game even without a lot of players.
ReplyDeleteWhen I hear the words PvE, lobbies, instanced team vs team battles with a MMOFPS like APB (open worldish) it really gets under my skin, i've seen so many promising games become cookie cutter grinding boredom (Global Agenda) by introducing these features...
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI've been reading this blog from day 1, been mostly silent, except one earlier comment of mine, but now again the post makes me wanna write.
Personally, I don't really care about PvE or Zombies (in APB that is), but I don't mind if you guys implement it to APBR - AS LONG it doesn't interfere too badly the PvP experience... That means if PvE'ers get something that PvP'ers don't (and vice versa) -> not good. And if I ever see a zombie running around in somewhere I didn't expect it to roam, that's the moment I hit the Log Off -button.
So, basically I'm all thumbs up for this whole "plenty different game modes" -stuff, I really am. The more, the merrier and Merry Christmas to all for that matter.
While you guys are at it, you could consider this (it's really my favourite):
REALISM MODE/RULESET, pretty please? Now I've been waiting this to happen since APB Beta was first launched.
If I think the reasons why I would ever stop playing APB, there are these two:
- I will get bored eventually in the fact that ppl get 30+ bullets in the head from point blank range and don't die. Hell, even I wanna die from one bullet!
- I HATE the fact that I can't do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING as an Enf when I see someone robbing a shop in 3 yards from me...
So what I would like to see is, if you get shot lethally once, you're dead. It doesn't HAVE TO include hit locations, but they certainly wouldn't hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, some players say it cannot be done because of the balance of the guns/game/blah/blah/blah, but that's really a poor excuse. There are tons of 1-shot-1-kill -kinda games and they do work. It's all about design. If G1 can mix PvE to this, they can do Realism, I have no doubt about it!
In this mode also, there should be realism in cop vs robbers -ideal also: If the Criminal is playing nice (no APB on him), Enforcers shouldn't shoot him. If they do, he would die, BUT there would be GRAVE penalties for that (money, rank, even playtime, etc). They are the good guys anyway... And when (not if) the crims do exploit it (like being a human shield to a fellow robber), they get APB (+ penalties if it's exploiting the basics of the game), either automatically or by a GM or even player votes.
If the Criminal EVER gets APB (does a crime), he's free for all, plain and simple. Just like in RL. Tough.
Now this would keep me and my posse playing this game until the end of time.
In all honesty this is not GTA so don't try to make it GTA. If I wanted to go do a long ass single player storyline game I would play GTA. If I wanted to go shoot Zombies I would go play Left 4 Dead2. If I want awesome car chases and to have shootouts and arrest people I come to APB.
ReplyDeleteNO no no no no no no no no PLEASE no!!!! The absolute genius of APB that makes this game better than anything I have ever played in almost 30 YEARS of gaming, IS the constant changing PvP environment. Any, and I do mean ANY attempts at bringing in AI, or changing the basic premise would be a huge disaster in my opinion. I hope to goodness you can make it work as it was. And I hope you listen to all of our comments. If I am outnumbered in opinion then of course I would have to accept it. But come on all you APB hungry people out there - leave a comment and tell them to keep our game, as it was!!!
ReplyDeleteFor me single play is a NO , but i think that the zombie mod can be really interesting and fun .
ReplyDeleteI would love to read the APB GDD one of these days, my last one was only 87 pages which outlines a similar game style, which is actually how I found APB. I needed to do the research and citations for the concept. PVE and PVP can work and did in APB to a point, I'll explain but let me jump track and first say: There are games out already that do what has been mentioned already. If you want to do whatever you want with no consequences go play EVE. If you want to kill zombies then AVA and Combat Arms are two of the best. If you want to build stuff and become cyber rich then Hukumdar is the game for you.
ReplyDeleteNow all of the games I mentioned have PVP, the problem is the amounts are over the top or not enough. APB on the other hand was so close to having everything right that had they had the finances to stay afloat the game would have evolved it possible the best game for the next few years. What killed APB was that RTW did not have the money to run the game for a year, actually they didn't have the money to run the game for a week the day it went gold. Yes there were potentially game killing issues such as balance which if solved would have fixed the other issues such as the glitchers and matchmaking.
But back to the OP, APB or as we need to start calling it APBR has a PVE system in place though it was utilized to its full extent. Missions were given by NPCs and were actually story driven, those of us that care about it noticed, but was not so hard line that those that simply wanted a license to kill could and did overlook or ignore. Expanding this farther is the natural way to go, the think for everyone to keep in mind is that the missions in APBR are not PVP until the opposite side accepted the call. Now in the last APB patch missions were auto assigned, that was bad and needs to be switched back to allow the player to accept the mission or not. This will allow the game to allow expanding the PVE experience without removing or cobbling the PVP aspect.
As far as a FFA aspect, that was all ready in game, get yourself to a gold star and you can fight and kill anyone you want. Anything else will lead to griefing. I am at the post limit so I will say, GF you can add a richer PVE and still maintain the ideal PVP if you look at the existing games and do not mimic them. And please no zombies.
soory that should read:
ReplyDeleteAPBR has a PVE system in place, though it was NOT utilized to its full extent.
There are so many ways it can be, but we can dicuss this later
read this review :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eurogamer.net/articles/apb-review
I guess...
ReplyDeleteFirst update must concern some new cars, new weapons, new clothes, and NEW(s) MAP(s)
And that will be enough for some month
You got good idea, but it just don't look like the APB we know and that's just disapoint people
Release the game back
Add some new stuff, and then, and only then... think of different mode for 6 month later at least...
Juts take a look at (dumbass suckin) WoW
They play this noobish game since 6 year and all they got is new stuff, new clothes and new PVe Bosses....
do not like, just fix the problems with the original game (no weapon leasing bullshit) and add a chaos mode.. find some other way to make your revenue that doesnt involve pay to pwn. bring the game back with the same style it had with a lot more mission types than just, grab the items, drive here, etc and it will be loved, lobbys and pve isnt what we played apb for.. how about if you make npc cops and npc crims to accompany the real players to make the apb'd matches seem of a larger scale?
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned Chess. I hope you stick with that. Because APB was not like Chess. It failed because both sides did not get the same pieces to start with. Enforcers got stun weapons and Criminals got nothing in return. This threw off the balance completely.
ReplyDeleteIt would be like Chess except one side gets a few more pieces. Just not fair. I really hope you guys balance out both sides so they have the exact same stuff. I know the stuff was put there to try and attract people to specific sides, but there's got to be a better way than screwing over one faction in combat.
Jesus Christ, if people start using this blog to complain about LTL even after the game is dead, i'm going to lose it.
ReplyDeleteSeriously. Get over it. Anyone who played BOTH sides for long periods of time knew that LTL was fair and fine. Only the CCG before the game died was unbalanced, because that became a weapon of mass destruction.
Go cry somewhere else, please.
i dont like or dislike the ideas they have. AI, story, and all that is fine with me. One of the guys said "These ideas will not effect the PvP." So im thinking we just get more content! You cant really say stuff is bad until you try it. So im looking forward to the next update they have, with a release date!
ReplyDelete@Rapid99
ReplyDeleteTypical response from someone who doesn't truly care about balance.
I'm not "crying". I'm pointing out a totally logical balance issue. One side has weapons the other side does not have. Therefore it's not balanced. End of story. The mere fact that I'm mentioning it and the game isn't even running should be evidence enough that I'm not crying about losing... How can I cry when I'm not even playing?
I'm simply bringing up the obvious balance issues since the game is coming back with changes made to it. If you're so tired of hearing people "cry" about it, then why are you so against it being changed? If both sides were totally the same, neither side could "cry" that the other is better. Period.
Anyone who played the game since it's release would know that the NL9 was ridiculously overpowered for a long stretch of the game's lifespan. Then the CCG took it's place a short time after. Either way, the point is that if these guns didn't exist (or were available to both sides), nobody would be arguing about them.
Isn't that what we all want anyway? Why keep it the same non-balanced way that it is and continue to be annoyed by people complaining? Why not just balance it and be done with it? The only reason you wouldn't want it balanced is because you're happy with having an unfair advantage.
Now stop crying about people pointing out facts.
Also just wanted to point out that he mentioned Counterstrike, which has been shown to also have balance issues when playing CT vs T. Some maps are balanced more in one side's favor... Some people feel that the m4 is better than the ak... etc. But that's not as big of a deal as giving one side weapons and not giving the other side anything.
ReplyDeleteIt would be like giving one side in Counterstrike smoke bombs and flash grenades and not giving it to the other side.
The reason the game works so well is that both teams are nearly the same (and in fact, some mods have them exactly the same) and the most popular maps tend to be the ones that are balanced for both sides.
Again, Chess = same pieces on both sides.
Hunter
ReplyDeletethey (a mod) fucking called me a child rapist
and then threatened to harass me over it. (if I didn't keep my mouth shut)
LEARN TO TAKE A GODDAMN JOKE
This is AFTER they use their modship to get personal info. (and add me on steam directly after I requested them not to)
heh
Learn to take a child rape joke?
yeah
The whole convo:
http://www.apbforum.com/forum/social-district/1641-mods-theyre-pleased-meet-you.html#post16495
The most fun i had in apb was when the largest matches went on, the larger the match the more fun it was. I agree with most people, i dont need or want some cheesy single player game. Especially if its anything like the tutorial that was in the original, and limiting the map seems rediculous, the sandbox part of the game is what makes it so unique, if i wanted counterstrike style game i would go play one of the 20 such games that i own that do that so much better. I want to see some crazy movie heist quests or something, something epic, with large teams.
ReplyDeleteNo single player. Ill play gta or any of the clones for that. I dont need counter strike style matches either, everyone does that. I want large scale apb fights, maybe 15v15 or 10v10, i want gang territory, i want move style epic bank heists, i definately dont want the sandbox gameplay limited to a smaller map. Dont make apb into a normal third person shooter, or just like WOW.
ReplyDeleteA bit off-topic: are the forums offline or something? I can't seem to access them :(
ReplyDeleteChris said...
ReplyDelete"It failed because both sides did not get the same pieces to start with. Enforcers got stun weapons and Criminals got nothing in return. This threw off the balance completely."
WRONG !!
OMFG what kind of bullshit you said -_-
I start as criminal, and the stunt gun wasn't the problem, I got around twenty friends who just don't wanna start playin APB cause they have to pay a game, and them pay everymonth to play
Most of them try the game with some free keys I give them, they all said the same things...
"the game is cool, but too expensive"
For sure at start the game is not balanced... maybe just cause you suck and you got people playin it since some weeks before....
The balance can be a bit better yeah, but it wasn't the "fail reason" stop sayin shit please -_-'
@cappadocia
ReplyDeleteI just read the whole conversation you linked. Stop trying to martyr yourself, its pathetic. G1st clearly didn't do anything wrong. They were ripping on you for playing hello kitty online, and you took major offense. The entire thing reads as friendly banter, but not to you, apparently.
Why don't you either unclench your anus or get off the internet.
It's interesting how you say that there is a story...I never saw it as a story rather its just a setting. The story merely creates the setting for the players to exist in. As a player I never saw any kind of story progression, the story told in the game was merely a backdrop in which I felt justified the state affairs and justified the way in which the world works.
ReplyDeleteI played APB because it had basic openworld elements. Counterstrike is not an open world MMO. If APB were to go in that direction it would be like Huxley, which is simply counterstrike with an interactive game lobby i.e. NOT truly an MMO.
I never saw a story in APB rather a 'backdrop'. It's interesting how you see a story with a potential beginning and end because really all that information simply justifies the world and arena in which players can experience a GTA multilayer.
ReplyDeleteWhen I say GTA I mean a city where everyone is their own Niko fighting and competing with other Niko's, however, their stories are their experiences with other players and not placed narratives.
I feel quite discomforted by this talk of counterstrike style action because then the 'MMO' tag would NOT be justified. It would be Huxley; selling it self as an MMO but really, everyone knows its just a COD or CS game with an interactive lobby.
When I first purchased APB I was hoping for 1 giant city with thousands of players in one great arena. Instead I got a instances with only 100 player max. It wasn't great to discover this at first but overtime I greatly began to enjoy it for the little things....
Your own music, mass customization, laid back, choose when to get into the action. Those are all enhanced when playing with friends.
I greatly look forward to seeing that same game which left us. If it turns into Counterstrike style match then there's no need for anyone to really play this when so many other games do counterstrike style matches better than APB.
LISTEN carefully!!! DONT BUILD A SEPARATE PvE section for this game.
ReplyDeleteyou will kill its core beautiy. its main attraction is the fast connection into PvP. no other game is so pure about this, and you HAVE to constrain the player into this machanic. IF you dont, there will be no reason what so ever to play this game, and i can assure you that this game will be ruined forever.
please, think very carefull what you are changing. APB dont need much. fix the bug, make it easier for new players to start, make shure it wont be hacked and try to loos the grind-factor in the first 40 hours and you are gold.
"and why is the Spy in TF2 French?"
ReplyDeleteBecause he was born in France, of course!
Can i give you one suggestion? Make the Crosshair Tri. Don't make the usual Cross-Crosshair.
ReplyDelete- -
|
^ that.
I would doubt, that there is a need for a second World of Warcraft (instanced PVE, or PVP on small maps), or for a second Counter-Strike, in a third-person mode.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, one should look at EVE online! Of course, a real time driving and running MMOG, with accurate physics, would be hard to realize. But, tending in that direction, could be a step to success. I think, many people would agree, that this is the way, a real MMOG should look like
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI would say I agree with a large number of the comments here - the great thing about APB was its PvP-centricity. You guys should make sure that you keep this PvP-centric core, whatever happens, because it really sets it apart from other grind-fest MMOs like WoW.
ReplyDeleteWith that said, I don't think adding PvE content / story-based content would do any harm SO LONG AS it's an ADDITION and NOT a REPLACEMENT for the current game mechanics. In fact, if done correctly, it could actually enhance it. San Paro did sometimes feel a bit like a large deathmatch arena rather than a world, so if done with subtlety, tact, and sympathy to the core PvP mechanics, PvE / Story content could make the whole experiance more emersive than it was before, and therefore add to the sense of excitement you get while facing off against other players.
Others have expressed most of my opinions in detail, so in the interest of brevity - Balancing of Weapons / missions / exploits etc, Chaos and Turf Wars mechanics, and (if there's time) one or two ADDITIONAL (not replacement) districs to compliment Waterfront and Financial and give us some new scenery.
On the issue of balancing the matchmaking, I've just had a thought - Why not help the balancing of matches by including NPC's to make up any shortfalls on either side? Think about it, CS:S (and similar) were the source of inspiration behind the PvP shooter mechanics, and in those games, server admins have the option to include bots to blance the numbers of the teams. Of course they aren't perfect or as challenging as real players, but it would be better than finding yourself in a 5v1 situation. This of course needs to be a "safety net", and polishing of the matchmaking itself should come first, but as a fallback I think this is a great option and one prooven to work. And obviously in APB, Threat would have to factor into the decision to add in bots, and of course bots should be removed as real players join the fight. It would, IMHO, add a very fluid dynamic to fights while helping to keep it fair. Just my two cents =)
Also, I would just like to give a shoutout to Ydiss! Nice to see an old face! (Starblaiz here btw ^_^ <333 )
uuuu... what happend to the forum section on gamerfirst.com? if u go under forums it doesnt even say apb anymore
ReplyDeleteIf anything was goign tob e done with having PvE implemented into this game the only logical step would be to have it intergrated into missions. Where criminals would go to rob a bank and have to fight NPC characters and then once they are done with the heist they would then have to face other players in order to get away and finish the mission. The same goes for the enforcers they would raid a stash house filled with some NPCs and then have to fight other players in order to get whatever they raided from the stash house back to the HQ.
ReplyDeleteBut in all honesty you guys have more than enough work cut out for you with fixing the game that you bought. Balance the guns, fix the broken mechanics and make the game play proper before you even think of adding or else you will end up like RTW did a game that is only fun when it works. And the game only works 10% of the time.
I liked the fact that the original APB was PvP and didnt focus on a 'story'. If Id wanted a story, I have bought GTA instead. It was the interaction with the other players, friends, the formation of clans and groups, and the epic battles with people from around the globe that kept me comming back every day. Doing poxy driving missions, and following a story isn't what APB was about. Yes I agree that SOME things could be improved, but Im afraid that if too many things get changed and 'developed', the original essance of the game will be lost ... and the people who loved the game to start with ... well it wont be their game anymore, and you'll loose them, and in the long run shoot yourself in the foot, so to speak. Your not going to do anyone a favor by changing the game in the direction it looks like its going, your just going to mess up a game that had potential, and make it yet another run of the mill, cherned out, following the same material game that are already 10 to the dozen.
ReplyDeleteThis games the best
ReplyDeleteI don't like the Counter Stike idea. I liked the game the way it is. It was fun even if I had to fight people with better guns that me. I miss Crim vs Crim.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds a tick like Crimecraft. Its good for the small size crimecraft is (Albeit Crimecraft is also pretty boring) But I think would not be swell for APB. Most people who bought and played liked the PVP style (That was advertised in videos and podcasts too), but did not like its lack of content and/or the mechanics, which to most people felt like a early 2000s or later 1990s styled.
ReplyDelete"Sure there are some allusions to a world out there (what's the Tournament thing in UT anyway?)"
ReplyDeleteAre you fucking kidding me? And you're in the gaming business?
They clearly explain why the tournament is a tournament in the first game. What, you haven't played one of the biggest and most inspiring FPS games ever made?
And just like that, there goes my hope that you have any idea what you're talking about. Good luck making an appealing game when apparently you know jack shit about appealing games.
we want the chaos server that rtw promised ! =)
ReplyDeleteMy sugestions:
ReplyDelete> enable some houses were the people can restore your health , the basic needs to life(like "the sims")
> enable some quests to earn money(like wow)
>enable the game cash(like second life)
with item prices based on real money
(good for you, good for us)
>houses and bases enabled to buy with the game money
I played apb when it was on CB and OB and i aways said to the devs that this game is good, but needed some tweaks (like making improvments on the driving steering and in the matchmaking system) and add more "end game" content like Bank raids where 16 crimminals fight agains 16 cops to rob the stuffs inside the bank or some territorial wars (like both criminals and enforcers fight for the control of determined block of the city) or maybe some pve missions?
ReplyDeletewell the game has good potential but need some good work on it before it can be released and make success on the global market.
Good luck
Hi guys - just checking in during the break - and wowie :), clearly this stirred some strong emotions! Great! We LOVE spiritied discussion about what is a really really important game to all of us.
ReplyDeleteNext week I will make a full posting, but in the meantime just a few notes; to "AnonymousLovesYou" - of course I "know" why there is a Tournament in Unreal Tournament. In fact I was an UT addict. But that was not the point. The real question was "do we care" that there even is a backstory to why there is a stinkin tournament (or - again - why there is a "Rock" that fell from the sky in WarRock etc.)? My assumption is that in some games we simply don't care about story, beyond the story providing a little bit of mood backdrop, because as soon as we start playing Unreal/WarRock/TF2 as a PvP game, all backstory detail goes out the window. At that point we shoot. And run. And shoot some more.
To everyone afraid that we will somehow DE-emphasize PvP. Have NO FEAR. We LOVE PvP. We love the open world IDEA (though the execution due to UE3 engine limitations with a 100-player per "open world instance" limit makes that a bit hard to work with without redesigning the engine). We would love to, and in fact aim to, solve all the PvP related issues in APB. In fact THAT is one of our main goals.
BUT - there is nothing stopping us from ALSO turning on OTHER features, and/or deeping existing threads, ideas etc. that were already stubs in the game. One of those is PvE. And there are other options like that which will be discussed more in the next post.
Before the start of next week I will make a New Year's post talking about some of these possible items.
A Happy New Year to everyone!
Til the next big update...
I appreciate the consideration of new ideas and a degree of willingness on your part to entertain discussion for or against.
ReplyDeleteI never answered your reply to me two or three weeks ago - thank you for replying and I would be happy to have a drink with you although I find beer too filling.
As for PvE and story... It could be nice but to do it well is a horrible undertaking... As for Counter-Strike style ... Just no, please no. The combat system is endurable because of all the additional facets of the game (Customization!) and the scape of the world allow for. Limit that to CS pug match and every flaw will be openly exposed and there are plenty to flaws to make it unbearable. The fighting really can't stand on its own merits unfortunately. The play style of the first game wasn't a flaw it was a feature; It was just executed poorly. Improve what's there then maaaaaybbeeeeee add more.
I'm really still crying about the horrid customization thing. That is still the factor for whether I even want to continue playing but now it just sounds like we are just complicating things so my hopes are dwindling. I will wait nonetheless...
I think you guys should be looking more into housing and pets for apb. Imagine an enforcer with their K-9 unit chasing after a criminal whose Pitbull is waiting around the corner, or just cruising with your pet looking out the window. I think you should add housing "cribs", where you can use some of your hard-earned cash to buy some furniture and have your friends chill and chat in your house. You could also have your pet stay there if you did not want him/her going on missions with you or have your fish and birds there. One furniture idea could be to have a TV that plays all of the film clips you have recorded or a music player that actually plays the music you own to your friends. THE MUST NEED THING IN APB YOU GUYS NEED TO ADD IS THE ABILITY TO SIT DOWN ON CHAIRS/BENCHES. I thought it was lame that we could stand on them but not sit down.
ReplyDeleteThx 2 Bjorn and the whole APB-Reloaded-Team for keeping us alive and bringing us back the greatest game ever.
ReplyDeleteI wish you all a very happy new year with good ideas and much success with APB-Reloaded!
btw...
I think what the gaming-community of APB wants is...
1. let the game core like it is
2. balance matchmaking
3. disable cheating
4. enable every weapon to everyone (stunguns for crims)
This "King-thing" could be funny, since GTA San Andreas I thought it would be great if you can buy any house on the map to "live" there and meet there with your frinds, but I think this is too much traffic for a game like APB?! Would be great, but we don´t want a Sims-Game at all ;)
Counterstrike... NO, PLEASE, NO!
A story... ok, my idea is to let players do some jobs in a story against computer opponents to "learn" gameplay and end the story with a completed enf or crim char (maybe Rank 80-100) and then they did "their job" in San Paro (play the game like it allready was). This could be nice.
Greetings daBlues
I think the game needs to stay the same as it was before. I really liked the original game. And I think you can change a few things but now too much. Check the twitter about APB Reloaded http://twitter.com/apb_reloaded
ReplyDeleteThanks TechMech
ReplyDeleteCrimeCraft just recently focused on a revamping of PvE, art work, and story for their game instead of focusing on what the original(PvP) core game was about and reworking it. It was a big loss, i was playing CC before APB came out around a little over a year now and that's a sub that has been canceled within a week or two after releasing their latest patch, and i know tons of vet players that are canceling their subs too(broken game is now broken more)... I'm just saying stick to the PvP, enlighten the core game, add new clothes/cars/guns/npc emotionless/tweaks to all the customization/etc... If you want any PvE added do it at the tutorial level for the new players and leave the core game intact, improve on it and your WIN
Yes we care about the back story, even if we don't pay attention to it and read it. We know it's there and have that since that we were brought to a place that existed before we got there and a lot of shit went down that we don't know about. The mood backdrop is important! Other than me knowing which faction to do to get what guns/upgrades, which is enforcer/crim. There isn't really a direct impact on game play from the story which I think is a good thing.
Those couple of comments you did for your update really put a lot of minds at ease. Glad to hear your not going to DE-emphasize PvP and keep it open world, no mini map instances please!
Cant wait and would love to hear about some of those options!
Also, on a more demanding note! No more scary brainstorming ideas thrown to the public as in an attempt to scare the hell out of people! I mean come on, it wasn't Halloween and I/we don't even know you that well :P
APB had no purpose. I loved the action but got bored so fast because I always asked myself why am I doing this? Their was no reason to care what side was wining ...their really wasn't "winning" in the game just a stupid leader board. That Made APB absolutely not an MMO. It was nothing but a multiplayer fps on steroids. And it had the depth of just that. I am a PvP fan and do not raid all that much in the MMOs I play, but I do want a back story and story driven quests that lead to PvP. I do not want meaningless PvP, it's fun the first couple days but then it gets monotonous. Also FFA is just dumb,and is not needed in APB. Cops and Robbers is perfect for faction based PvP, we just needed better objectives, like controlling neighborhoods and making money from it, more quest types and scenarios, Our every actions should effect the city and other players dramatically. The game needs to be truly persistent, when I log off and then log back on, I should be exactly where I was when I logged off the last time. I should not be in some starter zone or meeting room etc. That's for multiplayer fps games not MMOs. Also, I know this wont change but f2p is a joke. If APB was ever to be a "Triple A" MMO, it must be pay to play. Micro transactions are sickening and ruin immersion. Even previous games like LOTRO that went f2p are frustrating to play now. I would never play a game like silkroad for example. If they want to attract the west they need avoid f2p.
ReplyDeleteI forgot to mention that I am liking what I am reading in this blog. it sounds like you want to really explore APB's potential to it's fullest. APB had the potential the be one of the best action MMOs of all time, some of these ideas just might take it there. I am just not digging the f2p direction. I don't want to to have to buy my way to power on a micro-transaction site.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing you guys should look into are making us being able to go inside every building in the game. If you did this it would add to even more detailed tactical strategies. You should also add a mini game concept into Apb. For example, you and a couple of your buddies are bored and are wasting time in the social district, why not add a pool table, poker table, or even slot machines. You could be able to gamble any amount you want. I thought it would be cool because we all get tired of the action sometimes and then we take breaks in the social district to customize our characters/cars. After that what do you do? Why not play one of the mini games with some of your mates.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSo... well.. hmm.. happy new year - when is the game coming out.. Need to play NOW!! and its the first ½ of the year of 2011 NOW, so better deliver the goods NOW guys... or I know some guys that know some guys that knows where you get your "cookies" from.. if ya know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteGAME NOW - NOT LATER!
Things to do:
ReplyDelete1. More developed clans.
2. Some PvE objectives. They help with taking a break from PvP constantly, and you don't HAVE to do them.
3. Customer support and advertising.
4. Street racing.
5. Mini-games in social, like gambling, billiards, etc.
6. More developed story. Don't make it envelope the game, just elaborate on it more. People can choose to read the briefs or ignore them, it won't effect gameplay.
7. Actual winners. Give us a reason to fight. Control over districts, things like that.
8. I like that drug, weapon, etc. manufacturing that Nick mentioned.
9. Chaos districts.
10. Player housing. Fun addition.
Things to avoid:
1. Lobbies. God help you if you make this game lobby based in any way shape or form...
2. 'Maps' and 'loading screens'... no. You keeps this game true to it's roots. A full, open, living, breathing city. If you separate areas for clan matches, do it with invisible kill/elimination boundaries. People can still come in and leave as they please.
3. Zombies. There is no need for this, you can make other mini-games that don't involve throwing the game's atmosphere out the window.
4. Avoid making another WoW. People keep saying this. Why? It's the most popular MMO in existence. And for good reason: it's fun and has tons of replay value. No one said APB was going to become a knockoff. Don't be afraid to adapt some of it's ideas though. i.e. professions (maybe specialties. Your character is more effective with SMGs instead of other weapons. Maybe cars handle better. You pick one), talents, etc.
5. Make every building enterable. A majority of them were, that's all we need. Besides being useless, it would take up extra resources that this game already needs. I can guarantee that 40% of those indoor areas would go unused.
6. Keep the original characters. Yeah, don't. It would be better off that the new game came with a new start. If everyone starts off at an uber high level with level 3 guns and upgrades, it will just end up with the same old cheap bullshit for the first few months. Make us start over from scratch. It only makes sense.
I'm sure there is more but these are the dos and don'ts that i've sorted through and thought of myself. You still have plenty of time to put the game out of course, but this is something to ponder over, id you do.
@Rapid99
ReplyDeleteI agree with almost everything you said except for "5. Make every building enter-able. A majority of them were, that's all we need. Besides being useless, it would take up extra resources that this game already needs. I can guarantee that 40% of those indoor areas would go unused."
There were way too many times where I wanted to go into a building and could not. Not every building needs to be, but a lot more than it had previously do.
Great points though!
Also -
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GAMING....NO ZOMBIES!!!
Cheat for APB Hack Status Undetected working http://damncheaters.com/index.php/apb-hacks for apb developers
ReplyDeleteCheat for APB Hack Status Undetected working http://damncheaters.com/index.php/apb-hacks for apb developers
ReplyDeleteCouldn't someone, like say, your anti-cheat task force, get rid of assholes like these? ^^^
ReplyDeleteTheir entire website is for selling hacks for various games.
All of which, may I point out, are in direct violation of Title I of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is a felony.
They can be charged with a DMCA 1201 violation, which would result in either a $500,000 fine, 5 years in a federal prison, or both.
In all seriousness, if you ever have the chance to roast pricks like these, I beg you to take it. People who make money, illegally, by ruining other people's enjoyment shouldn't be spared. Real life trolls.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI just had this idea.
ReplyDeleteI posted this on the forums as well.
I think that PVE should play a part in PVP as well. This would make the missions more interesting and if done right can incorporate story.
Just a small non-story related example:
A group of Crims are told to go deal narcotics to some AI. A rival AI gang comes by and does a driveby. They circle around the block with more vehicles and hop out and start shooting the Criminals. The enforcers (ACTUAL PLAYERS) are called in to defuse the situation in which the AI gang start to escape.
The criminals mission is to take out the enforcers first but for extra money take out the remaining AI gang before time runs out (Or a certain number of deaths ON BOTH SIDES).
Another example:
Criminals are to rescue a important Blood Rose gangmember from being transferred to a prison. The prisoner is being escorted by AI ENFORCERS. The criminals mission is to take out the enforcers WITHOUT shooting the prisoner. Once the AI are dead Non-AI enforcers are called in for backup and must chase down and kill/arrest the criminals. Once the AI is arrested enforcers win. If the AI dies during the chase its a tie (No matter who shot or blew it up). If the time runs out (Or number variable of enforcers taken out) criminals win. I'd say 3-4 mins max for the chase is good enough.
I think that would make it more interesting.
I hope that wasn't already suggested.
You could have both no? Make the game GTA style but add up a few element to the PVP. I mean creating a PVP system is not really hard, look at Counterstrike, its not the most elaborated fighting mechanics but it works because of competitivity. So, work on PVE add up a few PVP aspect by adding the possibility to become enemy to a clan and being able to kill them wherever they are at all time if they accepted your war request. And the infamous "turf war" that was scrawled a billion time over the RTW suggestion box. Simply add up "siege time" similar to Lineage. You get to fight for "turf" which if you're in posession of the turf unlocks you a spawn point and daily incomes. To obtain said turf you need to participate in weekly pvp event were you sign up your clan to fight over some turf were you will spawn as the offensive or defensive side. Offensive side just as to enter the capture area and old it for like 2min or so. The defensive side has to protect the spot from being captured.
ReplyDeleteTo make it work you would probably have to open once a week a server with increased player capacity 200-400 players, the map instead of being San paro would be the "turf". Example of turf, San paro economy runs on its ability to import and export weapons and various other things and that is why criminal have become increasingly interested in its railroad system and blablabla, random background to say that you will fight for the control of San Paro's railroad system. You can do the same thing for a port, a bank, any economic epicenter that San paro might have.
In addition to all of this you could give a secondary objective for the defensive side. Offensive side could spawn at the far end of the map or near a portable spawn point. A swat van or whatever, the van would of course be alot more robust then ordinnary cars since theres 200 players fighting and it would get pistoled down. Player could move this spawn point, if it gets destroyed the offensive side has no other choice but to spawn at the far end of the map, giving a huge advantage to the defensive side.
Those are just random ideas i'm spouting around but i hope you can find something interesting to build up on for the launch of APBR.
I didn't really think APB needed more story. If anything, more access to the back story would be fine but pve missions to the extent discussed seem like a bad idea. Maybe I'm alone on this, but my reasoning for less pve story is because in APB, your character made his or her own story. Unlike in MMOs where EVERY player character follows the same dialogue and path to glory, APB allowed the player to make their own via their own achievement. People who were well organized and made large gangs became well known for it and ultimately feared on the streets of San Paro. Others who took the time to perfect driving, or were great in the image editor also became known for their skills. In an open world like APB, I feel like having every crim or enforcer follow a set path would sap the individuality and uniqueness of each characters. The players of APB should make the story, not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteAlso, AI in APB would fail horribly. Just look at the AI drivers that are already integrated.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to see APB in good hands finally. Can't wait to see what you guys bring to the table. I been seeing a lot of different types of comments, and I think people do not understand that you guys are trying to bring in the best of both worlds so everyone can be happy.
ReplyDeleteThose who love to get their hands dirty and go for PvP have the option to do so, but, by also adding a single player, story driven mode, would please those who would like to see how far the rabbit hole goes.
Also you said that you were coming up with a new mode "zombie", which I would absolutely eat up if you did, and knowing how many Resident Evil fans there are, you would be granting them the greatest wish they have ever wanted.
Keep up the amazing work guys, you have me all in goosebumps just reading your Blogs, and keeping us up to date with everything that is going on.
Once again, thank you for saving APB and breathing life back into her, she deserves to show off what she is REALLY capable of doing in the gaming world.
I was reading and reading and i was saying to myself "PVE in a APB? That would ruin the game!". I loved it so much how it was it sounds like your trying to super impose some random game modes into apb. Keep it pvp, don't waste your time. If you want to try a logical PVE game mode try like i said making some sort of dungeon like mission relevant to the game world e.g a bank hiest where crims (players) must rob a bank and then you can make the enforcers (replacing swat in a real life situation) npcs and see how it goes. However i would prefer the same mission PvP rather then PvE its vastly more exhilarating.
ReplyDeleteI think APB has a interesting story, san paro a city on the brink of extinction it seems, its last chance to save its self is to fight fire with fire with the enforcer act. It sounds like a great movie rather then a game. A "story mode" sounds like a bad idea but letting the city evolve like in episodes which u mentioned sounds like the way to go i mean i thought thats the way it was gonna be while i was playing it.
Based on that little cutscene when launching the game i thought that the city would eventually disband the enforcers (that reporter guy didn't seem happy) bring back a more intimidating police force (maybe a Private Security Company) and have Crims vs Vigilantes (enforcers) Vs The cities actual police force. That is what i imagined when i played it, its what i was anticipating and it sounds like just the way for you to throw in PvE and keep PvP, It will still be PvP missions Crims Vs Enforcers but with the cities police intervening with the to at every chance it gets. The enforcers didn't seem to be a actual police force just a faction with good intentions. Then you can add mission match maker where someone could opt for actual PvE missions over PvP missions.
However i still urge, APB isn't a PvE game, making APB PvE is like reworking any GTA game to be rated E on ESRB scale.
Yes, it would be good to flush out the story more, but do not shove it down peoples throats, give people the option but don't make them do it. Same goes for the "counterstrike" style of game play, it seems you're going to be forcing it down our throats; don't. Leave the open world aspect, do not try and scale down small map portions, you guys mean well, but you ARE going to do it wrong. It seems to me like you folks are trying to make a new game instead of improve on what you have. progression is the name of the game, but not like stats and guns wise. Someone mentioned controlling territories, that's a good idea, but you have to be careful of what bonuses you give and how it would affect the populous outside of any clans. God speed to you guys.
ReplyDeleteI know this is just another comment among the hundreds, but I feel like
ReplyDeleteand as a long time gamer/mmo gamer, I must contribute to this.
Among the several hundred active mmorpgs, you have pve elements everywhere, grinding 50 worgs, killing raid trash to get to raid bosses, boring, predictably pve...
Same loot, so fight, so grind.
All these games have terrible player bases, except of course.. World of warcraft, millions of bored, lonely people, log on every moment of their free time to immerse themselves with other people, this is evident in all the major cities, hundreds of people chatting, trading, and awaiting their mundane grind through pve, Not because they like it, but because it will reward them with items, where is the fun factor? Go outside a major city you see people dueling, and interacting, but still waiting on a que. It is boring.. everyone that plays wow knows it is boring. They long for a open world where action occurs. They want a vibrant city, where things are going on around them, they also want to experience things they normally would not be able to do in real live, being a gangster and stealing cars, robbing people, ect.. APB has the right idea, a open city, full of action, whether you want to cause some drama, or just drive around watch other peoples interactions, the freedom to do this is what makes the game amazing, it is what attract people to GTA online, and the huge success of gta multi player mods. People want realistic, people want real life, with out real life consequences. Anyone can make a pve game, but people wont play it, because there already is pve games, theres atleast 4-5 titles out right now on console that are pve crime games. Take the amazing shell of a game you already have and add to it, but don't change it. Player base will drop if you do so. I saw some posts that suggested changes to the world due to impact of players. Creating a district solely consisting of clan housing, or neighborhoods, or use the Wow pvp concept of Halaa, where the opposing factions battle for control of a area of the map for several hours and this area would offer perks, vendors of some kind, only for the battle to reignite after the 2-3 hour time of control is up. There is only so much I can write out, but if you read any of this, please don't ruin this game, there is way too many people looking forward to quiting their dragon slayer mmorps, and to join this one. If it is anything as I remember it to be, (of course minus some of the bugs and cheater) I will be on here for the duration of the time it live, and I will be sure to bring all the people I know seeking the same thing with me. Good luck.